This sermon-only transcript omits timestamps, worship music, announcements, and session logistics. YouTube’s automatic captions may contain errors.
Wow, Pastor James, thank you so much for sharing that. That was awesome. Um, I loved the pickle ball. The hand palm. So, use your hand. It's a Are the tables smaller? It's like a kids. Oh, wow. Okay. Hand pong. Yeah. So, if you don't have a paddle, you can still play. Look at that. That's awesome. What I love most about it is not just the programs, but the the life together that's happening, the relationships and the connection. those programs be become a context for those relationships to form. That's amazing. All right. So, yesterday we talked about the challenge that we face that this challenge of how some of the most active people, some of the most actively involved people in the programs of our church don't seem to grow the way that God intended us to.
Why does that happen? And it's it's a struggle because if the purpose of the church we we listed the purposes of the church if the purpose of the church is to grow to help people to grow so that they can go if the purpose of the church is to help people to become more like Jesus so that they can go and live and do what Jesus would do in the world around us then why isn't that happening more consistently? Now, I I do want to pause here and be clear. I'm not saying I don't want anybody to walk away from this feeling guilty that you're not growing fast enough or that you're not growing enough because growth belongs to God, right? So, he will grow us at his own pace uh in his own time.
But what I do want to do is examine some of our assumptions about what it takes to grow, what it means to grow in Christ, and ask the question, is that the way it actually works? Because this is not just a frustration that I see in the church. It's a frustration I have for myself. Sometimes I'm disappointed with my lack of growth. So, when I was younger, I had a temper, a really bad temper. And some of you are surprised by that. Others of you are not surprised by that. Others of you knew me when I was younger, so you know. Uh, but I did I I I would have these strong emotions inside and I didn't know how to regulate them well. And so whenever I would feel helpless or hurt, it would come out as anger.
Um, anybody here watched The Incredible Hulk before? Not the Marvel movies, that old 70s and 80s show with Lou Ferraro as as The Incredible Hulk. Yeah, I'm sort of dating myself now. Um, and uh, I don't remember much about that show because I was pretty young when I saw an episode. But what stuck me with me is the scene where Dr. Banner becomes angry and he transforms into the Hulk, right? Like he turns into that green monster. And so whenever I would feel helpless, I would imagine myself becoming the Hulk, right? I would start panting because that's what he did. I was like, and I would imagine like muscles bulging out, my clothes ripping off, right? And I like But you know, I was this skinny little kid and so it wasn't really scary. It was more funny. And so people would laugh and that would make me angrier, right? Like why are they laughing at me? They should be scared of
me. And I'd get angrier and angrier and I tag people and punch people. I mean, it was crazy. But as I grew up, that that sort of behavior became socialized out of me because I started to realize that if I halked out too much, I wouldn't have any friends, right? Nobody wants to hang out with the Hulk. So, I I you know, I I got that temper under control. And for a long time I started I thought it was gone. It was not a part of who I was. But every once in a while at the most inopportune times it would pop out. Like my senior year at PUC. Now some of you who went to PUC around the same time I did you know of a tradition called KMC, right? Korean motorcycle.
Um and uh it was basically a hazing ritual that upper classmen would do to lowerassmen and where they would basically turn the lowerassman into a motorcycle, right? Their legs would be the handlebars, in between was the pedal, right? And they would do a a KMC. And um you know, probably now there would be lawsuits over this kind of behavior, but back then it was just sort of accepted as something people did. Uh but to be fair, most of the upper classmen who did this, they they did it sort of in good fun. It they only did it to people that they knew really well, right? Um that they were friends with.
Um most of them did that. Um and so as a freshman, I I went down to Santa Rosa Rona Park Church every week. So I didn't really become friends with upper classmen. So I never experienced the joy of the KMC. But my senior year um a bunch of us were hanging out in my cousin Andy's room and we were talking about that and um it came up that I had never been KFC. And so just sort of joking half joking they said oh man you need to experience this so that you know you get the full college experience and so we were laughing and joking at first and then but the moment they grabbed me right I just freaked out. I started kicking and punching. You can ask some of the guys. They they they'll be here later this week. Ask some of them. I started kicking and punching and and and you know, something inside me just snapped.
Right. Another time this happened uh in I was when I was a youth pastor. I was uh taking my youth members up and down the West Coast on a mission trip. We'd stop at different churches and hold VBS in the mornings and afternoons and hold revival meetings in the evening. And so we did that for an entire month just traveling together. I I don't know how these parents trusted me. I was like 24 years old and I'm driving uh you know a 14 passenger van which we now have discovered is very dangerous up and down Chris Chris Chong went on the second iteration of that with with me. But on the first trip of this, we our last stop was at Portland at Rock Church. And um my birthday coincided with with this um this event. And so some of the leaders thought it would be fun to kidnap me and take me somewhere and then bring me back and they would have a surprise birthday party for me. But the moment that they tackled me and started putting a
blindfold over my eyes again, something snapped, right? I just freed punching, kicking, biting to get out of it. And you know, I knew these are my youth members. These are my my leaders. I knew that they're not going to hurt me, right? And so the rational thing to do would have been to just play along and and laugh at it and just move on. But I couldn't access that rational part of my brain. I was in full fight or flight. Has that ever happened to you before? Maybe not hulking out. I'm sure none of you do that. But have you ever had someone say something or do something and you responded much more strongly than you expected? and you're not quite sure why it had such a strong response from within you.
It's because there is something deeper happening within us. Um Peter Scazero, he he shares how humans are like icebergs. You know with icebergs only 10% of the iceberg is visible above the surface. The majority of it is found below the surface. And he says, "Humans are the same way. Only 10% of who we are is visible to other people. The majority of our identity lies below the surface. And a lot of times we are comfortable with God helping us to disciple the top 10% of our lives. In fact, we want God to make us more patient, kind, loving on that visible portion. But we often get very uncomfortable with God working on the stuff below the surface of our lives.
Sometimes because we don't know ourselves what's happening down there. Other times because we don't want to know what's happening down there. We've spent a lot of our lives trying to cover up and hide what's below the surface. See, what's above the surface is what others see. And then there are portions of us that are below the surface that that very few other people see that only we see. But then there may be even portions of our lives that we don't even see ourselves that only God sees. Um like Shrek said, humans are like onions, right? We have layers. We are layered people. And part of the reason why I believe we don't always fully grow in Christ is because we stop God at the the surface level of our lives.
We don't want him to go too much deeper than that. And yet, in order to grow deeper in Christ, we have to allow him to work below the skin, right? to do soul surgery on us. You know, when I go see a doctor, I'm I'm most comfortable when they are operating above the surface of my skin. You know, if they give me ointments or lotions to put on, that's great. Even if they want to freeze off a wart, it's uncomfortable, but that's I can do that. The moment they take out the scalpel is when I get nervous, right? And what God is saying is he needs to take a scalpel to our heart.
He needs to take a scalpel and do surgery on our souls. And that is scary for us. It is. It's difficult. And yet that is the only way for us to grow deeper in Christ and to continue to become healthier in the person that God wants us to be. So what does this look like? What does it look like to allow God to do soul surgery on us? I want to share with you a framework that's been helpful to me. It's um it's put together by uh two professors or prof former professors from uh Fuller Seminary, Dr. Janet Hagberg and Robert Gulick. and they they spent time analyzing the lives of thousands of Christians to try to figure out what's the pattern of growth that happens within a Christian's lifetime and they identified a six-stage spiritual development theory and I'd love to share this with you and then get your feedback or questions on it. So this is what they say is um is happening for us right?
Okay. Oh, actually I don't have it here. Sorry, I missed the slide. All right, we're going to stay there. I'll just describe it for you. So, stage one, they say, is birth. That's where the recognition of God happens. This is where the for the first time you realize there is something bigger than us out there and we want that. whatever that is. We may not fully understand God, but something about God attracts us. I had a I I teach a religion class for first year nursing students at Lom Molinda. And at the end of last quarter, I had a student come um send me a canvas message and s ask to have Bible studies with me.
She um she had kind of grown up in a Christian household, not really practicing. And then when she became an adult, she had walked away from all of that. But as she was going through school at Lom Molinda, attending the chapels, um the discussions in our class, something sparked with within her and she was eager to learn more. That's stage one. That's the birth, right? The birth of the person is where we start to recognize that God is someone that we want to know. Stage two is what we refer to as the life of disciplehip or infancy, right? It's like human infancy. It's after birth, after they they are baptized. Have you noticed how people who right after they're baptized, they are the most eager at that moment to learn and try things, right? It's kind of like an infant. They're they're exploring the entire world. Everything is exciting and new to them. Uh but they're also very dependent on the people around them to support them. An
infant can't survive on their own. And yet many times how we approach these infants in church is that we sort of abandon them to their own devices. And there's a reason why we have this big Torah celebration, right? The one-year celebration for babies. because infant mortality was a serious thing in Korea back in the day. We've gotten better at taking care of babies physically. But we we still have some work to do when it comes to taking care of infants spiritually because sometimes we don't always support them the way that they need. They need people to teach them. They need people to help them connect to community around them. That is so crucial for development at that second stage. Third stage. The third stage of um of a development is the productive what they refer to as the productive life. I call childhood. This is the stage where the person knows enough that they feel comfortable trying things. Um you have you noticed that some of the most popular toys for children is um are
are toys that mimic what adults do, right? toy kitchens, toy vacuums, toy lawnmowers, right? Toy. And I always said to my children, you know, if you really want to mow the lawn, I'll let you try. But this is this is the point where children are wanting to engage in doing things. They want to let me do it myself, right? Is what they say. And that's the same thing with Christians at this stage is this is the stage where Christians will get involved in serving the church. They'll get involved in ministry, getting involved in worship and praise team and serving at potluck. Right? So this is that third stage of development.
Now many times this is where the church stops investing in people, right? We teach them. We baptize them. We didn't teach them. We connect them to community and we think we we get them involved in service and we think we're done. That's it. But there's three more stages left. That's just childhood. All of adulthood remains. And yet that's many times where we stop because what comes next is deeply uncomfortable. And it's so different than anything else that happened before. My professor Todd Bolzinger, he he talks about how Lewis and Clark um were sent to explore the Louisiana purchase. You familiar with that story way back US history, right? We purchased this big plot of land and many people thought that the one of the tributaries, the Missouri River, would take them, if you follow it all the way to the end, it would take you them to another river, the Hudson River, which would connect them to the Pacific Ocean.
That was the belief, right? And so Lewis and Clark went on this expedition to find that connection. So they followed the Missouri River all the way to the end. It took them 15 months of canoeing upstream to get to the end. And by the time they got to the end, it was just a little spring where the Missouri River began. And um they talk about in their diary how amazing it was to straddle the mighty Missouri River, right? But they thought the hardest part was done because there was just a little hill and they believed right above over that hill you would find the Hudson River and then you just follow that downhill all the way to the Pacific Ocean. Now, those of you who live in the Pacific Northwest know that's not what they found, right?
Because they crested that hill and instead of finding the Hudson, they discovered the Rocky Mountains, the biggest mountain range they had ever seen in their entire life. They thought they were at the end of their journey. They were just at the start. They thought they that the rest would be downhill. It was all uphill from there. and they had to abandon their canoes. These tools that they had brought with them to to navigate um to the Pacific Ocean, they abandoned them and they had to hike up the Rocky Mountains to get to the other side. And they finally did. They made it all the way over there. But it was a different set of tools that got them there. I share this because a lot of times we think Christianity works the way that Lewis and Clark thought the Northwest Passage worked. You know, we think that, you know, we we repent, we're baptized, we learn about God, we we join a community, we get involved in
church, and then we just ride it out all the way to the end, and it's just smooth sailing. But I think many of us have been followers of Christ long enough to know that that's not the way it works, right? Because at some point, we hit the Rocky Mountains. At some point, we hit a wall. At some point we we have an experience that does not resonate with anything that happened with us in the past. And when we hit that wall, we oftenimes don't know how to respond because that wall that wall is that place where everything starts to be confusing. Have you ever Have you ever had a time when you felt distant? Like really distant from God where your faith formulations didn't seem to work out the way that they used to?
Now, often this comes from suffering, some kind of loss, loss of a hope, loss of a dream, loss of a loved one. Life doesn't turn out the way we expect. God doesn't come turn out the way we expect and it's confusing and disorienting for us. The wall is where we are disappointed with God and we're disappointed with ourselves. The wall, the wall is where everything we thought we knew about God starts to feel uncertain and the faith that brought us all the way to this point doesn't seem like it's enough for what is ahead. Have you ever experienced the wall before? I'm not going to ask you to raise your hand, but I would guess that in a room like this that many of us this is not theoretical.
This has happened to us maybe multiple times. Maybe if we're being really honest, some of us are in our wall moment right now. We're facing the Rocky Mountains and we don't know how to get through. See, that wall that's there is one of the most challenging parts of following Jesus. But what's incredible is that wall is not a barrier to our faith. It's a bridge to our faith. Because that going through that wall is what enables us to go deeper with Christ. And that's what Gulick and Hagberg discovered that that wall experience is a catalyst to a deeper relationship with God. That's what allows us for the next stage to grow inward where we start to examine the brokenness inside of us. Be real honest about who we are deep inside underneath the surface of our lives.
And it's where we it's where we um then are able to grow outward and we embrace that our lives are not really about us. That it's not about getting to the top and seeing the view from the top of the the um Statue of Liberty, right? That that's not what life is about. that our lives are about loving and caring for the people that God has entrusted to our care. That that's why he put us here, that outward life. And we start to serve God not out of a sense of obligation, but out of a love for him and a deep love for others. But all of that is only possible if we journey through the wall.
See, the wall is not a barrier to our faith. It's a bridge to our faith that we have to walk through. It's an incredibly high and steep and rocky bridge, but it's a bridge that we have to journey through. You know that song um Oh, come to the altar. It starts, are you hurting and broken within, overwhelmed by the weight of your sin? Jesus is calling. Have you come to the end of yourself? Do you thirst for a drink from the well? Jesus is calling. This is describing the wall experience. It's the wall is where we come to the end of ourselves and we realize that we don't have enough in here to handle the life we are supposed to live out there.
And we we in that brokenness, we discover how truly powerful and great God is. That wall experience. So I want to pause here for a moment. When you think about this journey and it's not a linear journey. We go back and forth along this all the time, right? You know, we hit the wall, we get through it. We go backwards. We live that productive life. Go back through the wall. This happens multiple times. And each time we travel through the wall, we get deeper and deeper. So, I want to ask you at this point in your life, where would you say you are in this circle? And I want you to turn to the person next to you and just process it with them. And also process what questions you have about this. So, I'm going to give you a moment and I'm going to try to find that slide to show it to you.
All right. So, as you've discussed this and your position, I'm not going to ask you to share with the group where where you where you believe you are, but um are there any questions that came up as you thought about this about this journey? No questions. Perfectly clear. Let me ask you something. Can you think of of people in scripture who hit a wall? Yeah. Who are some people that you can think of that had a wall experience in scripture? Joseph. Yeah. Elijah, right? When he went into the cave, right? Um Peter. Uh Peter when he denied Jesus. Yeah. David. Oh man, David had a long wall experience. He had a wandering experience. He had a rejection of God. He had everything.
Second Samuel is very difficult to read others. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's That's very insightful. Yeah, that that's absolutely true. That's what they said is that this is not a linear path, right? It we actually go back and forth on this arc all the time. And hopefully each time we go through that wall experience, um if we allow God to he allows us to get deeper with him. You know, it's it's it's this this process is uncomfortable, but there there seems to be something in scripture about how going through that wilderness experience, right? Um some people call it the dark night of the soul. Um Jesus called it Gethsemane, right? Even Jesus went through this. He went to the through the wilderness experience. He went through Gethsemane before he was crucified. There's some there seems to be something about going through this this difficult experience with God that propels us into something deeper with him. I mean, looking at Jesus, Jesus
literally went out into the wilderness and was tempted by Satan. And we're going to talk about that um tomorrow, but he was tempted by Satan. Um the Bible says he went out there to be tempted by Satan. It's like he's putting himself in that wilderness experience in order to come out of that stronger and step into full-time ministry. He needed the wilderness before he could begin. And the same thing with Gethsemane. He needed Gethsemane before he could go through crucifixion. So there's something that about this suffering, this this journey that that is a part of our growth process. So what is that? I want to take a moment and look at a passage with you where Paul talks about that.
Um Paul writes in Romans 5:es 1-4, therefore since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom we have gained access by faith in this grace in which we now stand. and we boast in the hope of the glory of God. I want to pause there for a second because this is important. A lot of times we brush past this, but this is important because he's setting up the context for the conversation about suffering in the wall. He's saying what comes next is for people who already stand in the grace of God. Right? He says this since we have been justified through faith. Right?
That's the past perfect tense. That means this is already our status. We've already received the forgiveness of God. We already have a relationship with God. So suffering and what comes next is not the method through which we earn salvation. And that's very important because salvation comes first. God is saying I've already redeemed you. You already stand in my grace. That is your status. You are a child of God. That does not change depending on what comes next. But there is further growth involved. See, salvation, the the beginning of salvation is not the end of our journey with God. We think, "Oh, we're baptized. We got them sealed. We're done. Our job is done." But that's not the reality of following Jesus.
Jesus is saying, "I want to lead you deeper." Right? So, he says, "That's already begun. You have your status in me." And then he says this and I I I want you to think about what is he saying about the role of suffering in in the in the process of growth. He says not only so but we also glory in our sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance perseverance character and character hope. So what is what is Paul saying? What is the role that suffering plays in creating character and hope? What would you say? Suffering is the foundation of hope. It's where it starts. Yeah. Does that resonate with your experience that going through suffering actually stabilit stabilizes your hope?
Wow. Yeah. Suffering through perseverance, wrestling through the suffering is actually what leads to character and hope. Like you can have suffering and it not lead to character and hope if you don't wrestle through it. Yeah. Persevere through. It's a great point. Yeah. Yeah. Is that uncomfortable for you? I mean, that's uncomfortable for me. I I'm really uncomfortable with how he starts this. He says, "I glory in my sufferings." Right? Like, I might tolerate my sufferings. I don't really glory in my suffering. I'm like, "Yay, suffering. I'm not a massochist, right?" Um, but why do you think he says that? Why does he say that he glories in his sufferings and that it produces character, produces perseverance, perseveres, character, character, hope.
How does that work? Oh, I love that. You're not fixated on the suffering. You're anticipating what is to follow. You're anticipating the character and hope. And that's what allows you to glory in the suffering. It's not about the suffering. It's just a means to something else. The process. Yeah. Heat. So suffering does that. It actually opens our eyes to our need for God. Yeah. Arthur pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you know, there's a concept called antifragile that that talks about that that pressure actually produces something stronger, right? The diamond is stronger than the lump of coal that it started off with. Um, yeah. Yeah. that there is suffering involved at the beginning of the cycle as well. Yeah.
Then What is that? What is it that allows us to get through that suffering and persevere when other people step away? Right? We're going to actually talk a little bit about that tomorrow, that journey through the suffering and what it means to persevere. Um, but there does seem to be that connection between growth and suffering. And we see this in our like our physical lives, right? Um, so I I've been told that people experience growing pains. Um, at 5 foot seven and a half, half is important. I'm still waiting for my growth spurt, but still hopeful that I would be a basketball player, but um, some of my friends who, you know, grew like three or four inches in in the course of a summer, they said that their joints ate.
they actually experienced physical pain from growing. And it's not just that. Like anybody who's learned any kind of skill before, we know that there is at the start it's exciting and it's easy, but at some point we hit a plateau, right? Training for a marathon, um playing pickle ball, playing tennis, like at some point it's like harder to get better. We hit that wall. And so we know that this happens in our physical world, but it seems to also be a part of our spiritual world world as well. And the question is then why? And I think it goes back to what Tony was saying that it produces like um Arthur was saying.
So um there's a gentleman by the name of Nasim Talib. He talks about he has a whole book um about the concept that he invented called antifragile and he says that there are uh three types of substances in how they they deal with um let's go deeper um three kinds of substances and how they deal with pressure right um the first are fragile things fragile things break under pressure and then there are resilient things resilient things survive alive under pressure. But then he gives a third category and he calls these anti-fragile things. And anti-fragile things actually get stronger with pressure, right? So uh a a glass cup is fragile because it breaks. You drop it on the ground, it cracks, right? It's fragile.
A rock is resilient because you can drop it on the ground and it's it's it resists it at least up to a certain point, right? But muscles, muscles are antifragile because we put pressure on the muscles and the muscle says give me more. Right? Because I only get stronger the more pressure you put on me. Actually, muscles need stress and pressure in order to grow, right? They're anti-fragile. And it seems like God has made humans anti-fragile. He's made us antifragile. He's made us not just to resist pressure, but to get stronger through it. That's why God says, now there is a limit. But that's why God says, I will not give you more than you can handle. Right? Because what he's saying is, you know, if you overwork a muscle, it rips and then you get injured and there's a whole process of recovery. And that sometimes happens with humans. But the idea is the type of suffering that God is using to grow us.
And not all suffering, I'm not saying that all suffering is given by God intended to grow us. There are some suffering that a result of our own sin. There's some suffering that's a result of other people's sin. There's some suffering that's a result of the brokenness of this world. Okay? And some of that there's no re rhyme or reason to any of that. But there are times that God is saying,"I want to use the suffering you're experiencing and actually I'm going to lead you sometimes to a hard moment in your life that you're going to experience that suffering so that you can grow. That also happens, right? I'm going to lead you to that wall because I want you to experience what's on the other side." We are anti-fragile.
See, a lot of people when we face the wall, we respond in one of three ways. And it kind of aligns with this. Some of us break under the pressure. We we hit that wall. God doesn't make sense anymore. And we say, "I can't handle this. We give up and we walk away." A lot of people leave the faith at that point in their lives. Others are resilient. They'll hit that wall, but they're very uncomfortable with it. So they won't wrestle with it. They'll just say, "Let's pretend this never happened and I'm going to go back to what I believed about God before it happened." Right? And I think all of us at times have done that. We've experienced something. We're like, I think if I wrestle with this, I may not believe in God at the end of this. So I'm just going to pretend that this doesn't happen that didn't didn't happen and just go back to that old way of thinking, right? We're resilient.
But there are some who are anti-fragile who allow those questions, those doubts to come. We see that struggle in the Psalms. Over 50% of the Psalms are laments. Laments are people struggling through the wall, screaming at God, God, how could you allow this to happen? God is not afraid of our questions. God is not afraid of our doubts. He He encodes them. He He can canonizes them in scripture. That's how comfortable he is with our doubts in the midst of suffering. The worst thing we can do is is to is to take our doubts and not voice them to God and leave. The second worst thing to do is to ignore our doubts and just hide them and never express them to God. The best thing we can do is to actually express those to God and allow him to journey with us through it. And tomorrow we're going to talk about what that could look like. What what does it look like to walk through the brokenness of
our lives and the brokenness of this world with God in a way that makes us grow rather than break apart? But today, I want to end with this. I don't know where you are on this journey. Maybe you're in the midst of a wall moment right now. In that moment, what I would I hope you remember is that that God has called us to journey with him through it, to persevere through it. This is this is from um Eugene Peterson, one of my favorite authors. He's the translator of the Message Bible, and he writes this in his book called The Long Obedience in the Same Direction. Don't you love that title? He talks about how following Jesus is a long obedience in the same direction. It's not an instantaneous change. And this is what he says. One aspect of the world that I have identified as harmful to Christians is the assumption that anything worthwhile can be acquired at once. We assume that if something can be done at all, it can be done quickly and
efficiently. Our attention spans have been conditioned by 30-second commercials. Our sense of reality have been has been flattened by 30page abridgements. It is not difficult in such a world to get a person interested in the message of the gospel. It is terrifically difficult to sustain the interest. Millions of people in our culture make decisions for Christ. But there is a dreadful attrition rate. Many claim to have been born again, but the evidence for mature Christian disciplehip is slim. In our kind of culture, anything, even the good news about God can be sold if it is packaged freshly. But when it loses its novelty, it goes on the garbage heap. There is little enthusiasm for the patient acquisition of virtue, little inclination to sign up for a long apprenticeship in what earlier generations of Christians called holiness.
This is what it takes to grow deeper with God. A long obedience in the same direction, persevering through suffering. So as you're journeying through these difficult times, I hope you will remember this chain reaction that suffering pu produces perseverance, perseverance, character, and character hope because suffering is not a barrier to our growth. It's a bridge to our growth. Let's pray. Our good and gracious God, suffering is one of the most challenging things that we humans go through. This wall It's not even just the suffering. It's the wondering whether you are with us in the midst of it. There are times when we seriously question whether you're with us at all or if you're here, if you care about us in those moments, Lord, help us not to run in fear from the suffering, but carry it to you and allow you to journey with us through that wall. It's our prayer in Jesus name. Amen.