This sermon-only transcript omits timestamps, worship music, announcements, and session logistics. YouTube’s automatic captions may contain errors.

Christianity. I think Joey may have talked about this yesterday and like from World War II etc. And then you can see uh membership of course has dropped significantly from 70% down to about 47%. Um at the same time we're looking at how we can shift from what we call multiplying churches. And that's an evolution where maybe I don't know how long ago 20 years ago there used to be this trend towards like the mega churches right if you remember like crystal was it crystal cathedral or something like that you have these huge churches on TV etc. And there's been this shift where a number of these have been moving into smaller churches almost like a home church model. So what we call that is the multiplying church where the number of churches increases but the size of the church actually decreases right because what they found is when you serve at a mega church and it's an amazing experience people love

it but the minute you lose those kind of luxuries and features there's nothing left it wasn't able to touch into like a true connection with God so to speak all right um I think Joey talked about the wall right uh and so it's mostly for those that are new where there may be a sense of duty that people learn as a child to go to church and you learn the rituals of attending Sabbath school and church and at some point in your life you might hit a wall and multiple times in one's life you can hit that wall where the expectations don't quite meet reality. So um this just a summary for those of you that weren't here. Now we're going to break out into the small groups here and we're going to have two rounds of questions. Um and I'll jump to those questions here. So the first question, we have about 20 minutes to go through these questions. It's about five

minutes each. The very first question we adjusted because actually I think we've already had the wall conversation in the small group. So this question is actually when have you felt loved by the church and if you possible within your small group try to name a specific time and and what was the scenario of why you felt love from your church or by your church. We have five different small group leaders that we're gonna ask you to just move. We're gonna stay in this room. Just gonna ask you to just kind of spread out across the room. And then after you've answered that question, we nice catch. We have a series of uh three more questions. And I realize these I'll admit even a little confusing to me because how AI wrote this. But if we look at the first one, what would our churches celebrate if our deepest goal were people being formed to love and disciple others?

The question behind this is my anecdotal experience I would hear from you know conference like how many baptisms has your church had this year like like how are pastors being measured right is that really the right question that we should be asking if the question is more of how are people being touched to love and disciple others what would that look like if we were to focus on that instead right second question in round two is now how has the church supported your disciplehip journey in a meaningful way because churches are so different, right? Sometimes you have larger churches, you have a lot support structure, you have a lot of pastor, you might have a senior pastor or associate pastor, you might have a fantastic set of elders and deacons and and so forth supporting. Sometimes your church might be very small um like our our church if our head deacon doesn't show up every week, right? Um, so you can have a lot of different

different examples of things you can experience. So the idea here is to share the the the you can share what you've you've experienced with your churches so we can each learn from each other, right? Because we we have different experiences. And then the last one is like what shifts could churches make uh to better support people at all stages of disciplehip? And this is tricky just because, right, you might be in the early stages of, hey, we just want to survive. Um, I'm super busy taking care of young children. I can make it to church, but that's about it, right? Like, I'm just focused on watching after the young kids. Or you might be at a stage in your life where you are kind of further along in that journey. And so, how can we all help each other is ultimately the question. Before we break into the small groups, let me just pause and ask if there's any questions.

No. All right. So, for the small group coordinators, if you could please raise your hands and then if possible, kind of spread across the room. So, we have Pastor David, we have Sandra, Pastor Chin, we have Joey. Maybe if I can ask uh some people to come down on this side to fill over here, right? Oh, Pastor Chris is also a small group coordinator. Uh moderator here if he's here. All right. All right. So, yeah. So, if we have Pastor David Kim on the far right over here, we have Sandra in the back. We have Pastor Chin down here. I guess we'll have Pastor Joey and Pastor Chris. If you can also raise your hands and we'll find you can join your small groups. Okay. So, 20 minutes roughly five minutes per question and uh hope good conversation.

Oh, no worries. It's okay. That's the first question. That's right. Sorry about It It's been actually about six, seven minutes. So hopefully you're on to the round two now. Okay, it should be good time to start the second round of questions. Anyone else? We We have about five minutes left. Okay. Five minutes left. Okay. Hallelujah. What shifts the church? All right. One minute. One minute. All right, thank you so much. Should we have to ask everyone to wrap up your conversation please? Huh? Sweet. All right. Thank you so much everyone. I I uh I wish I had more time. We're we're going to ask for a debrief as well. So um you can ask each of the moderators to come down and share uh what themes and and some hopes. So if you could ask you to come down to the front please.

Okay. Yeah. Come down here and share. Oh, it was in the deck I sent out. You may not have gotten the deck, but oh well. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna ask ask the moderators to come down to the front, please. When does this end? What do we Oh, I'm not sure. Where's Pastor Paul? Pastor Paul. Pastor Joey, you want to come over here? Pastor Chris, Sandra, Pastor David, come down. They want you guys. He He wants you guys to come down. Yeah. It's not in the script, but he wants you guys to come down. It's okay. Oh, sorry. We go to 11:30, so we actually have time. Yeah. Yeah. We go till 11:30 though, right?

Sorry. 11:15. 11:15. Okay. So, we actually have time. We have a lot of time for reflection. Then let's debrief. All right. So, thank you so much for engaging and having the conversation with your moderators. Uh, I wish we could give you some more time. I would encourage you to to think about it some more. I'm going to ask the the moderators to summarize some of the themes that they've heard and to share at least one hope. Um, I'll actually start because I had a had a fairly small group that were incidentally all part of I think the same church and uh where they are in their their kind of journey for disciplehip as a church um they're at the point where their church is almost ready for the multiplying stage.

And I think that's incredibly special because if we take a look at the different stages of churches, you have churches that are declining, churches that are staying steady, churches that are growing, and the very last stage you can get to is a multiplying stage. Uh across the US, uh for even non-denominational Christian churches, I believe the stat is less than 1% of churches are at this stage. And so uh to have uh something that that special chemistry oops that special chemistry and and connection and and stage of disciplehip I think is incredibly special. So I'm hopefully we have the nucleus here that we can help support each other and all learn from this. U I will certainly admit like I I'm I'm eager for our own church to try to learn through this experience as well. Um so I'll turn this over to Chris.

What which some takeaways for the whole conversation. Okay, great. Um a couple key points in terms of uh especially that first question was uh a balance between it's no not a balance but having both elements of love shown through daily regular community life. Um, but also that love and showing up on very important life-changing experiences like the death of a loved one that you must have both. You cannot just have people show up for the big thing, the tragedy, and not spend any time together on a regular basis. But you also can't have people just hanging out, playing pickle ball, playing golf, and then they don't show up when someone dies or someone's in the hospital. So, you need both elements of that. uh in order for people to truly feel love. I think the other key um theme is one of those significant moments is times of transition and and when a family moves that we have to recognize that if a new family moves to

your church, they're in an extremely vulnerable position. They don't know anybody. They're they don't they're kind of like lost in a way. And so that is a very important moment for the church to be around a family like that. Um should I share the other things as well? Okay. And then um one of the key things at the at the end as far as like what we what could be shifted and what could change is uh moving beyond the the basic small group that the small group provides a foundation of relationship and um community. But in order for disciplehip to happen, it needs to be an intentional next step where we use those relationships to lead people to become more like Jesus. um that disciplehip is not meant to be done as a solo act, but we often stop at we love each other and we pray for each other, we support each other, but how do we use that

relationship to um to use to to lead people into the next steps of disciplehip wherever they may be that when you hit the wall, it is a community around you that will help you get past it. Um so our group uh thinking about um when they felt love uh it was clearly when the church and church representatives show up for important life events uh you know birthdays and um graduations and and and those meaningful uh experiences were shared and attended by uh church representatives, church members, pastors uh and so forth. um for um how um what was the second question? Oh, what would it look like? You know, how what's would we celebrate? And um uh the discussion was when we can be ourselves and and know that we're accepted like the word home, feeling like being at home uh came up. Uh baptism came up.

Baptism not as in just uh you know a notch we can put in our membership role but uh something that is akin to courtship and marriage right it's a journey where you move uh from external into a intimate uh relationship um hearing testimonies of others is in inspirational encourages people to uh go on the journey um and give ideas of how maybe they could go on the journey. Um and then uh how what are some things we can do as a church that shifts us from uh where we are to moving uh into disciplehip and um and growth. Uh several things uh active small groups was mentioned but also intentionally creating features in the church that uh move the congregation toward that. And one example was uh how you put the seats together or how you arrange the pews so that it encourages uh community and interaction.

Um hi everyone. So I'm from the east coast. This is my first time at the west coast camp meeting. So I do want to share that. Thank you. Um I do want to invite you to visit east coast camp meeting sometime as well. But But I do want to share that I had really, you know, wonderful expectations coming to West Coast camp meeting Eating, but it's really far exceeded my expectation. Um, you know, seeing many of some of you that haven't seen since I was in childhood, but everyone's, um, what's really impressing to me both here and East Coast is that something I shared that we're everyone seems to be aging really well. So, I don't just mean I don't just mean appearance-wise, but just the way that people are thoughtful and conscientious and how we want to grow in Christianity and in community.

So, that's been it's been such a wonderful time for me. So, I want to thank everyone for that. Um, and I really appreciate our group who shared um so well even though some of them are not familiar with me. So, something that we shared was um uh intentional uh outreach. So whether it's individually or as a group making intentional effort to reach out to each other. So that's something that was highlighted. Um you know in terms of celebration we talked about how uh we can not only celebrate our successes but also celebrate failures. I just find that to be really beautiful and um also celebrating safety. So it all kind of goes together right what that would look like. um we would have to create really a certain type of environment relationship to truly celebrate failures and and celebrate safety. And another thing that came up was that when there are successes um that's you know shown that not so not just celebrating what's

already there or what's what we can see as a success but really celebrating the why like why was it successful? Why is it something that we did? Um something else that was also highlighted in terms of disciplehip was that there's opportunities for young people to be mentored but maybe not enough opportunity for us to be mentored but also opportunity for us to mentor. So um like active communication from the church of the needs and trusting that there will be people who want to be part part of that. So like continuously communicating the need and opportunity to serve. That was something that came up. Um and and and praying together and and praying together like this. Yes. But like hands on each other uh when there are challenges really like physically touching each other and praying. Um that was something that came up too. So yeah.

Uh uh so in in our group we when we talked about uh the moments that people remembered and that uh where they felt loved uh it was a lot of the same things of when people showed up for them. Um especially in the big moments but also in the small moments of of everyday life just being there being welcoming inviting them in. Uh but one one that I I really stuck out to me was um one of the uh actually one of the first people that shared talked about a lady in their church who took the time to pray for all of them. She would take time out of her week on Friday to just go through her prayer list to pray for all the members of the church and how meaningful that was over time as she continued to do this practice. Um so I thought that was really powerful. So I wanted to share that with you. Uh also when we talk

about um the the things that we should celebrate a lot of the same things um you know stories um the journeys that people are on. Um baptism was again another huge thing. Uh different stages celebrating uh when people transition from one stage to the next. What would that look like? uh to celebrate them taking on leadership and ownership of the church and then also like entering into Sabbath school and learning um and what would it look like to celebrate the wall or failure as well. Uh, one powerful one that was shared that resonated with a lot of people was celebrating lingering. You know, um, that how long do people stick around just talking to each other after the formal programs are done, right? That seems to reveal a lot about uh whether people really want to be with each other, right? And the longer the linger it may say a lot about the relationships that are forming in the church. So that was

great. Um and then and then when it came comes to what was the third question? Oh uh yeah it was um shifting the shifts that that are happening. Uh two things um sort of stuck out. One was the willingness to listen. So asking people who are in those stages or people who have gone through those stages what has been helpful to them and starting there as a starting point. also the importance of identifying the stage that people are in. Like how do we know where people are in this journey and one of the most powerful ways to do that is actually to be in the context of a relationship whether it's in small groups but being intentional about trying to figure out where we are each where each person is and trying to help them get to the next point. So yeah some shifts. Thank you.

Um, I'd like to ask two people to come down from our group. You guys want to come down? We're going to celebrate. We're going to celebrate. Come on, come come. I It might feel uncomfortable and awkward. I'm sorry to put you in this position, but uh we like to celebrate what there what she's done for her. You want to kind of share? So, you guys are from Nevada? I am. She's She's from Southern California. Palm Springs. You're from Palm Spring. How'd you get to know her? We were together. Oh, you worked together? When I was 20 years old. Wow. And we haven't seen each other in 10 years. I want to tell tell us the story.

A and almost had to finish, right? Go ahead. Tell us the story. How you tell us the story. She's better than me. So, okay. So, tell us the story. her and her husband are a dentist. I went in to go get my wisdom teeth pulled and I just mentioned I'm doing the dental assistant program and her husband didn't say anything. So I was like, okay, maybe he's not interested. The day after I completed the program, he called me, "Well, did you finish?" I was like, "Yeah, he's see you at 8 tomorrow morning." And they just gosh, I just have so much love and respect for them. So she called me and said, "I'm landing in Sacramento. Come pick me up."

And she's just been such a dear friend all these years. And she introduced me to all of you guys. And I could cry right now. It's been such an amazing experience. And thank you everyone who's been welcoming and kind. We're going to talk later. Okay. God is so good. Thank you so much. Yeah. This is amazing. Right. We're celebrating what God is doing through this cat meeting through the their lives and I think this will continue on and thank you so much for sharing your faith to other people and participating in this uh community. Um and then the second thing from our group is um David had mentioned something about hey we should be a little bit intentional when you go to church instead of meeting talking to everybody think about couple people and have a conversation see how their spiritual journey is going and then just dawned on me said maybe what we need to do is Sabbath morning we pray

God who do you want me to go when I go to church to share my journey with them. You know, just one or two. Then maybe after in the evening, you can think about, hey, who did God allow me to connect and share my journey, my spiritual journey with that person? Maybe some some of the things that you guys can do personally. And I think this is the way of uh experiencing um disciplehip through with Christ. So these are some of the things we talked about in our group. Thank you, Pastor Shin. appreciate it. Um that does remind me there's a a few more I didn't answer all the questions either for our group and uh one of them was how do they feel love? It was when um they went to potluck and instead of thanking being thanked for for serving in potluck and and joining they were no longer thanked and they felt like they were now accepted as part of that same

group. Um and the other one was how do they feel uh the the celebration of of that love and disciplehip. Uh it was when they spent all of this effort to put together various programs like BBS and others and then seeing the attendees and and the kids and everybody be there and to be able to you know like uh benefit from that service all that volunteer and and energy that they felt that satisfaction of of serving there as well. There was one last one which was I mentioned earlier they're at the stage of getting ready to multiply and it sounds like they attempted to do something like that but um they offered the program they offered the funding but it didn't quite work well. Uh and it's partly I think because in order to have that sense of ownership you almost had to go through this experience of struggle and figuring out how to build that trust and build that sense of

community together. and they, you know, this church did that when they didn't have a pastor. They had to all serve themselves individually and then they were able to now achieve like that sense of cohesiveness. So it's it's there's some analogy I'm sure in terms of being a parent and child like how do you teach your children in the same way, right? We want to give our kids all these things but in many ways they have to go through this journey together. So uh thank you so much for for sharing. Um so we have uh a moment where we want everyone to spend some time in prayer and I know this is very precious time. You've taken away uh from maybe your work, you've traveled a far. Uh but I also feel like we feel like it's it's rare to have this moment. So I want to give everybody uh a moment here to to reflect and to pray.

And then uh after that I'm going to share some of the feedback from our pastors uh in terms of the survey. So I think we give ourselves um give ourselves about 10 minutes actually. So we'll we'll about uh seven minutes I think might be enough. So like 10:45 it's in about seven minutes. And so um just we'll ask for quiet reflection or prayer. Thank you. I hope I'm not disrupting anyone's prayer. Thank you for taking the time. I hope um hope it was able to give you a time for reflection and to help open your hearts. I did want to share uh some of the feedback we had from the different pastors. I think we we got feedback from about 14 different pastors that serve West Coast Korean camp meeting to ask them, you know, what are their their wishes that they could share. We did it in an anonymous format so they could share both what are the things that they

feel they need support in or things that they wish that their congregation members could understand and and and hear from them. And also one of the questions was actually like if it was their last sermon, what are the key messages that they'd want to share? So, um the the the the number one finding here was um for for how what they think their congregation needs. That was the question. That wasn't the finding, but the number one um response of what does their congregation need? They feel like their congregation needs mentorship and support for disciplehip. So I think that feeds very well into uh what this week was about. They also about 65% of them did feel that their congregation understands the burden that a pastor has and in many cases they're about but one person. Uh so it is very difficult right for that one person to do a lot in terms of what a church might expect them. Uh

but at least it seemed that most churches understood that that burden that they had. Um, one of the the key takeaways that one pastor said was, you know, please try to be church. Don't do church. Don't just always focus on doing church. And it's so easy to, you know, focus on what are the next steps we have to get done. Whether that's the worship service or potluck or running small groups and preparing and cleaning. uh especially for those that are supporting and leading these functions to try to take that time to uh I think as we've all shared in the debrief you know the the value of those relationships the value of um right like taking that time out so I think the pastors see this as well and I think there's a broad recognition that they can't do this by themselves we the lay people of this church everyone else like we are all part of this one community together and

I'm not asking people to serve more because that's like always the ask. But it's just more uh at least trying to go through that disciplehip journey, right, for ourselves and and how we can help each other. All right. Um so we originally were going to pass out pieces of paper, but to be eco-friendly and we're in this new age of AI, uh the thought here is it's been a long week. There's probably a lot of things that you've been thinking about. Instead of taking your reflection card, it's the one time I'll actually ask you to take your phones out. I would like you to ask you to write an email to yourself based off of everything that you've been praying about, what you've heard.

Is there one thing that you would like to do for yourself and for your church? And I'd ask you to please write that email to yourself and send it so that you have that in writing to to go back and look at uh just because it's so easy otherwise we leave the room to get distracted with the next things that demand our attention. All right. Um adjacent to that while you while you write that email to yourself uh I don't know if many of you are aware we have the live stream page at our website the wckcm.orglivestream. /livestream. I've added in AIdriven summaries and the transcripts for everything. So, I'd ask the speakers take a look at the transcripts and see if they're right or wrong, but the summaries are all there and all bulleted and it's mostly there for that if you want to go back and you know recall what is it that Pastor Joey or Pastor David

spoke about and you didn't take notes because I don't expect you to take notes like it's all there on the site. Um, if you're curious, this this is an interesting dynamic. I also had AI autogenerate all of the sermons on the CM side in English as well. So you can actually take a look at what they've been talking about through the entire week and they can see the Korean translated versions of all of our sessions as well. So I'm going to try to see if we can also use this as an opportunity to help bridge the two groups together to some extent. Um it's all an experiment. So as you can well tell based off of other things. Yes. Do you have any questions?

on our website which is wckcm.org. And if you just go to that or if you type in /livestream, it'll take you straight to the page. But if you just go to the website wckcm.org, you'll see at the top there a live stream tab. When you click on the live stream tab, it'll have two columns. One is the EM adult session, one is the KM adult session. And it has a schedule. So you'll see like Monday, Monday morning, afternoon, evening, the speaker, there's a link to the YouTube. So the YouTube videos are all unlisted. You cannot find these recordings through YouTube.com because unless people tell me otherwise, I was not inclined to make this thing open to the world, like the complete world, right? Like the only way you can find these videos is through the wckcm.org website. Anyone can view them, but you can only find it through the website.

Um, since we do have some time, I did want to ask uh just see if there's any questions uh whether that's around the topics for today or any broader questions as well. I think there was some great questions that were asked earlier around like training for lay people. I didn't even know that Kynos had training. So, that's one of the things I'm going to be looking into personally and just want to see does anybody have any questions or any feedback they would like to offer. Yes. Yeah, I think I guess probably one of the hardest things to do is when someone has a very different perspective and different belief. Yeah. To still be able to show that. Thank you for raising that. Um I did want to open this up. So do you have a burden in your heart that you wish to share? Do you have any reflection you'd like to offer? Um I know maybe have shared it with the small

group as well. If even if you haven't, I just want to make sure there's an opportunity today that you can would love would love to hear from you. Yes. I want to share with you So you have thought about this Thank you, Pastor Chris. That reminds me uh like I was reading about Francis Chan and the um the home churches that he's been building out and I was afraid to even mention it to my pastor because like you're essentially advocating to have small groups turn into small home churches and not come to your central church. And finally I had the guts to mention it to him. I was like, "Hey, do you have any thoughts around home churches?" And he's like, "Oh yeah, I would love to do home churches, but I don't know how to like energize uh the the congregation to be able to start something like this." And so being able to have that conversation was eye

opening for myself as well. Um yeah, would love to hear if there's any other thoughts that anyone has, please. Yes. Yeah. So when their kids age out and go off to school undergrad, like the parents have less reason to come here, right? And then how do we find both a purpose as well as to serve their needs as well? A church as well. Oh, a church too. That's a good question. Yeah. Does anybody have any thoughts about that? Because I think there might be different churches that have gone through this journey as well. Strong communication. Keep people involved. Keep them involved in small groups maybe. Yeah. Yes. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So, it sounds like you're having parents uh supported in in various forms is super key as well. Yes, that makes sense. Yes, Amy.

show. That's a really good point. I I wonder we're talking about this demographics and we have KM adult. We have KM young adult. The age of the KM young adult. It's like our generation. I mean, they're actually in their 40s, 50s already. And we have 90 I think we have we have people in their 80s and I think we have some 90 year olds on the KM side still coming. Uh and obviously that's not sustainable. So yeah, it's a really good point. Thank you. Anything else anyone would like to share? Yes. It's not just There's always It's not just Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yes. Yeah, we could definitely um invite more more more individuals to join. I'm just going to show an example. This will work here.

So, we we take a look at where everyone registers from and uh who came last year versus who didn't come this year. And you can see, yeah, I get LLKC. I can't make it bigger. Sorry. Everyone's eyes are too small. Yeah. Okay. Right. So, you can see a natural what LLKC obviously hosted last year, so there's less people that came, right? But even though there's a lot of us in this room, there's a lot that came last year that didn't come back. Um or it's a decline. And this is just looking at one year. I mean, there's obviously a lot more people that that didn't even come last year. So, I think Pastor Jen, to your point, it is a huge opportunity if you did feel that there's something special here to try to have that conversation with someone else in your church maybe. So, that how else will they know, right? It's like unless you've experienced it yourself. Yes.

Question. Oh, so you're not you're not in the top 10 gaps then. That means you're on the uh most registered. Are you here? You're not there either. So I guess I guess you're not an outlier. Like you're consistent. No, it's it means it's good. These are only the outliers of like the greatest increase or the greatest decrease. So if you've held constant, then you're not going to show up in the top 10. So like we we use this as during registration to tell pastors like hey your church isn't registering please do you know that's what it's used for. This is not an overall stat. Yeah sure. Not not trying to there's and this just for em uh and we do it for we do it for each of the age groups KM and others. Yeah. Okay.

Any other questions or insight? Yes. I say thank you. You want to scroll down the bottom? Uh, well, that's more or less it. We break it down by Yeah. No, that's I mean, there's there's other there's overall stats. Oh my goodness. You want to see this all? Okay. Uh, age group. I think we have overall church. We had 1,50 people. Um, registrations by church. Here we go. Now, Chris, you'll feel better. So, Rock Fellowship. There you go. 82. 82. Does that sound about right? 82 attendees. Okay. So, this is overall church. Yeah. All right. Sorry. Did you have uh something you wanted to mention? Yes. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, that's a really good question. So, what do we do for real disciplehip training? And it sounds like not just for adults but like the full generation including kids, right? Um so there's the I think the discipleship I think of it disciples training I think that Kinos has potentially for lay leaders that's

different more on the adult side is what I'm assuming. Uh on the kids side I'm I Yes, Chris. Is it a is it a fair suggestion then to when trying to figure out what does training look like for either not just lay leaders then but including for youth leaders and and younger uh then I think Kynos is working on supporting those programs and trying to figure out what we can do in that way that's kind of a central place that can share and democratize that knowledge across different churches. So that might be the easiest place to go towards would be Kinos for now and but if there's specific suggestions that anyone has here around how to get our kids especially to learn more around disciplehip I would love to hear it. I mean, I've heard some examples, maybe a bit draconian, um, uh, where it's more around how to serve and, uh, there's one family when I was growing up in Hong

Kong, they sent their kids to work in heroin recovery clinics, but the heroin recovery clinic did not use any drugs. So, they're there for the, you know, the the duration of those three, four days in cold sweats, and you have to stay with that person through the entire time. And it was kind of scary in hindsight to think of a high school kid trying to support them through that. But um like that change that was character building, right? I mean you will not going to forget that experience. Um I don't know I'd recommend that for for kids these days, but just giving that as one example. I don't know if anyone else has any maybe better examples they can share.

This is just Maybe church. Maybe some of you guys Yes, Irene. Yeah, I Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Uh no, that's that's fantastic. Um so real as we're coming up on time so for Cayam it sounds like yeah it's the goal is to reinvigorate regrowing re coming back together. So definitely something to look into does sound like what I heard you mention an opport would love for parents to also be involved as well. So similarly it's not just what can do for your children but also how can we as parents find ways to both provide feedback as well as to support CAM. And it looks like a lot of these different programs because we were talking before this around disciplehip training that was done back in the early 2000s and then different programs. It ultimately comes down to a very small number of people, maybe one in many certain cases even one person, one volunteer. So it makes me realize like

how much of an impact even one person can have to help support whether that's a small community or a large community. So, uh, if you're interested in reaching out to Pastor Kim around Cayam or I would love to find ways for this type of community to sustain in between camp meetings as well. I think most people kind of know each other within your same churches, but I would just say in the last we we'll break now. If you're interested in reaching out and connecting with someone here uh that's not part of your church, you don't have their information, please do that. Uh so really appreciate your your time today, your engagement and uh I hope that you have a wonderful rest of the day. We're going to break now so that if you have to go pick up your kids from VBS or other programs and we'll see you in the afternoon. Okay. Thank you so much everyone.